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	<title>Comments on: So Now What?</title>
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	<description>don&#039;t drink from the wrong one</description>
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		<title>By: links for 2009-05-05 &#171; Amy G. Dala</title>
		<link>http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/#comment-2484</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[links for 2009-05-05 &#171; Amy G. Dala]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 14:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dyepot-teapot.com/?p=657#comment-2484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] So Now What? « Dyepot, Teapot (tags: gender computing rails) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] So Now What? « Dyepot, Teapot (tags: gender computing rails) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Addendums &#187; Blog Archive &#187; on a less tangible, but incredibly impactful barrier for women in tech&#8230; &#8220;a BarCamp braindump&#8221; - trimentation does blogging</title>
		<link>http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/#comment-2477</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Addendums &#187; Blog Archive &#187; on a less tangible, but incredibly impactful barrier for women in tech&#8230; &#8220;a BarCamp braindump&#8221; - trimentation does blogging]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 10:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dyepot-teapot.com/?p=657#comment-2477</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] way of Code N Splode, BarCamp, and (for thinking fodder moreso than actual magic) the entire Rails Pr0n [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] way of Code N Splode, BarCamp, and (for thinking fodder moreso than actual magic) the entire Rails Pr0n [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Closer To The Ideal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Porn, fuck and the gender openness of the Ruby on Rails community</title>
		<link>http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/#comment-2474</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Closer To The Ideal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Porn, fuck and the gender openness of the Ruby on Rails community]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 03:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dyepot-teapot.com/?p=657#comment-2474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Audrey Eschright responded by writing about the importance of addressing issues of sexism in the tec...:  Sexism is endemic in the tech industry. This can mean that people who aren’t trying to act in a sexist way sometimes do, because they aren’t stepping so far outside the cultural norm that they realize how their comments or actions will seem. I’ve seen a pattern in past controversies where the offending person is called out, people argue back and forth over whether the behavior is inappropriate, the person apologizes, and that’s the end of the story. Maybe people drag it back out later to say, “yes, remember that thing that happened?” but I don’t see that as change. I see it as acceptance. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Audrey Eschright responded by writing about the importance of addressing issues of sexism in the tec&#8230;:  Sexism is endemic in the tech industry. This can mean that people who aren’t trying to act in a sexist way sometimes do, because they aren’t stepping so far outside the cultural norm that they realize how their comments or actions will seem. I’ve seen a pattern in past controversies where the offending person is called out, people argue back and forth over whether the behavior is inappropriate, the person apologizes, and that’s the end of the story. Maybe people drag it back out later to say, “yes, remember that thing that happened?” but I don’t see that as change. I see it as acceptance. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: WebDevGeekly &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Episode 12</title>
		<link>http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/#comment-2471</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WebDevGeekly &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Episode 12]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 01:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dyepot-teapot.com/?p=657#comment-2471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] http://www.chesnok.com/daily/2009/04/27/what-works-getting-more-women-involved-in-open-source/ http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/ http://www.loudthinking.com/posts/39-im-an-r-rated-individual [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://www.chesnok.com/daily/2009/04/27/what-works-getting-more-women-involved-in-open-source/" rel="nofollow">http://www.chesnok.com/daily/2009/04/27/what-works-getting-more-women-involved-in-open-source/</a> <a href="http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/" rel="nofollow">http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/</a> <a href="http://www.loudthinking.com/posts/39-im-an-r-rated-individual" rel="nofollow">http://www.loudthinking.com/posts/39-im-an-r-rated-individual</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: D'gou</title>
		<link>http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/#comment-2458</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D'gou]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 01:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dyepot-teapot.com/?p=657#comment-2458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Female Rubyist : Yes, so very much yes.

&quot;Those who don&#039;t know history are doomed to repeat it.&quot; true enough. But those who do know history can recognize the tactics of those who are trying to pull the same ol&#039; BS yet again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Female Rubyist : Yes, so very much yes.</p>
<p>&#8220;Those who don&#8217;t know history are doomed to repeat it.&#8221; true enough. But those who do know history can recognize the tactics of those who are trying to pull the same ol&#8217; BS yet again.</p>
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		<title>By: Paddy3118</title>
		<link>http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/#comment-2447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paddy3118]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dyepot-teapot.com/?p=657#comment-2447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m neither female nor a member of the Rails community but I do go to technical conferences and would like to applaud the stance against selling engineering with sex. 

I mentioned your previous post on my own blog, as I think its useful to be reminded that you can shape the community: http://paddy3118.blogspot.com/2009/04/fight-for-community-you-want.html


- Paddy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m neither female nor a member of the Rails community but I do go to technical conferences and would like to applaud the stance against selling engineering with sex. </p>
<p>I mentioned your previous post on my own blog, as I think its useful to be reminded that you can shape the community: <a href="http://paddy3118.blogspot.com/2009/04/fight-for-community-you-want.html" rel="nofollow">http://paddy3118.blogspot.com/2009/04/fight-for-community-you-want.html</a></p>
<p>- Paddy.</p>
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		<title>By: Female Rubyist</title>
		<link>http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/#comment-2445</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Female Rubyist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 03:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dyepot-teapot.com/?p=657#comment-2445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What&#039;s really sad about this discussion is that it&#039;s a replay of the 70&#039;s when non-white non-males were starting to break into IT.  The same arguments are being passed around now about how the members of the out-groups shouldn&#039;t get any special encouragement since most of the in-group people are convinced that every tiny bit of their own success is due to objectively-measured competence and nothing else.  It&#039;s not true of everyone in the in-group but there&#039;s usually a majority that is clueless about their own privileges.

So here we go again.

What can we do?  For each community occasion -- conference, OSS project, etc. -- make a specific effort to bring in at least one or two people who are not young white males by asking as many of them as you can find in the community to participate or to make suggestions about the people/topics they want to see.  Ask them personally, not in a general announcement.  In the long run that will make a difference.

Another thing that helps is for the community to realize that edgy and cutting edge are very very different from puerile and unprofessional.

Illustrating a technical presentation with porn is very much in the puerile and unprofessional category.  An example is Joel Spolsky&#039;s speech at 2008 RailsConf:  Including sexy photos of both Brad and Angelina did not make the inclusion of sexy photos in a conference presentation a good idea.

I also would like to note that I did not attend GoGaRuCo because the &#039;We are rock stars!&#039; attitude in their marketing put me off.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s really sad about this discussion is that it&#8217;s a replay of the 70&#8242;s when non-white non-males were starting to break into IT.  The same arguments are being passed around now about how the members of the out-groups shouldn&#8217;t get any special encouragement since most of the in-group people are convinced that every tiny bit of their own success is due to objectively-measured competence and nothing else.  It&#8217;s not true of everyone in the in-group but there&#8217;s usually a majority that is clueless about their own privileges.</p>
<p>So here we go again.</p>
<p>What can we do?  For each community occasion &#8212; conference, OSS project, etc. &#8212; make a specific effort to bring in at least one or two people who are not young white males by asking as many of them as you can find in the community to participate or to make suggestions about the people/topics they want to see.  Ask them personally, not in a general announcement.  In the long run that will make a difference.</p>
<p>Another thing that helps is for the community to realize that edgy and cutting edge are very very different from puerile and unprofessional.</p>
<p>Illustrating a technical presentation with porn is very much in the puerile and unprofessional category.  An example is Joel Spolsky&#8217;s speech at 2008 RailsConf:  Including sexy photos of both Brad and Angelina did not make the inclusion of sexy photos in a conference presentation a good idea.</p>
<p>I also would like to note that I did not attend GoGaRuCo because the &#8216;We are rock stars!&#8217; attitude in their marketing put me off.</p>
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		<title>By: ab5tract</title>
		<link>http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/#comment-2444</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ab5tract]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dyepot-teapot.com/?p=657#comment-2444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Audrey, I just got finished reading both of the posts relating to this presentation, along with all the comments. I really like the tone of both pieces, I think you&#039;re calmness makes the message(s) more effective. Congratulations on that, as I know how hard it can be to remain calm when dealing with bigotry. It is amazing how ridiculous white male defenses of white male privilege begin to look once you have begun to see that privilege for what it is. As a white male myself, I had to have it pointed out to me. Since I was seeking knowledge (attending an antiracist workshop) rather than being called out for being racist, I welcomed this new frame of understanding. It&#039;s taken every year since then to get where I am now, and even today I still feel like I slip up sometimes. But that was one of the most important part of the antiracist seminar: Deconditioning yourself from a racist worldview is Hard. It is Painful. It is even Alienating, as you find yourself unable to enjoy the company of those who revel in their sexist and/or racist privilege. And it is Ongoing.

My point? The reactions of the &quot;there is Nothing Wrong Here&quot; crowd really got my blood boiling today (which was the first day I&#039;d read about Matt&#039;s presentation). This post, oriented towards constructive responses for the community, is just what I needed to read in order to cool down. (This is quite a different t0ne than the comment I would have left on the previous post if the comments weren&#039;t locked and I hadn&#039;t read this one, for starters).

My suggestion for conference organizers would be to include optional (and non-schedule-conflicting) antisexist and antiracist workshops. Like my first workshop experience, people may go just to validate that they are indeed not racist or sexist only to shockingly absorb the fact that that is total BS. The first step to recognizing that a problem exists is often to have someone fully articulate the problem and that it exists. The biggest problem I&#039;m having with Matt&#039;s presentation is not the pictures or even the context: its the hand-waving reactions by all these (exclusively white?) males. Hint: the first step to realizing your WMP is that you think it is up to you to decide what is sexist or racist?  Second hint: it isn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Audrey, I just got finished reading both of the posts relating to this presentation, along with all the comments. I really like the tone of both pieces, I think you&#8217;re calmness makes the message(s) more effective. Congratulations on that, as I know how hard it can be to remain calm when dealing with bigotry. It is amazing how ridiculous white male defenses of white male privilege begin to look once you have begun to see that privilege for what it is. As a white male myself, I had to have it pointed out to me. Since I was seeking knowledge (attending an antiracist workshop) rather than being called out for being racist, I welcomed this new frame of understanding. It&#8217;s taken every year since then to get where I am now, and even today I still feel like I slip up sometimes. But that was one of the most important part of the antiracist seminar: Deconditioning yourself from a racist worldview is Hard. It is Painful. It is even Alienating, as you find yourself unable to enjoy the company of those who revel in their sexist and/or racist privilege. And it is Ongoing.</p>
<p>My point? The reactions of the &#8220;there is Nothing Wrong Here&#8221; crowd really got my blood boiling today (which was the first day I&#8217;d read about Matt&#8217;s presentation). This post, oriented towards constructive responses for the community, is just what I needed to read in order to cool down. (This is quite a different t0ne than the comment I would have left on the previous post if the comments weren&#8217;t locked and I hadn&#8217;t read this one, for starters).</p>
<p>My suggestion for conference organizers would be to include optional (and non-schedule-conflicting) antisexist and antiracist workshops. Like my first workshop experience, people may go just to validate that they are indeed not racist or sexist only to shockingly absorb the fact that that is total BS. The first step to recognizing that a problem exists is often to have someone fully articulate the problem and that it exists. The biggest problem I&#8217;m having with Matt&#8217;s presentation is not the pictures or even the context: its the hand-waving reactions by all these (exclusively white?) males. Hint: the first step to realizing your WMP is that you think it is up to you to decide what is sexist or racist?  Second hint: it isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: A Painful Decision &#171; A Fresh Cup</title>
		<link>http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/#comment-2443</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Painful Decision &#171; A Fresh Cup]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dyepot-teapot.com/?p=657#comment-2443</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] mistake of speaking of &#8220;the open source community&#8221; as some monolithic bloc. People like Audrey Eschright, Aaron Quint, Peter Szinek, and Selena Deckelmann have written about ways to address some of the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] mistake of speaking of &#8220;the open source community&#8221; as some monolithic bloc. People like Audrey Eschright, Aaron Quint, Peter Szinek, and Selena Deckelmann have written about ways to address some of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tending the garden &#8250; What works? Getting more women involved in open source.</title>
		<link>http://dyepot-teapot.com/2009/04/26/so-now-what/#comment-2440</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tending the garden &#8250; What works? Getting more women involved in open source.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 00:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dyepot-teapot.com/?p=657#comment-2440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] you have a community, and you notice that there&#8217;s an imperfect distribution in participation, what do you [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you have a community, and you notice that there&#8217;s an imperfect distribution in participation, what do you [...]</p>
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